- What changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
- Is it still appropriate to think of
- Discuss the possibility of
Friday, April 3, 2015
Group Eight Discussion
Blog post due at 11:55pm on April 7 and comment due at 11:55pm on April 10.
China
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As it relates to the democratization of the Chinese, it will become increasingly necessary for the state to relinquish control of basic rights. The prospects of a modern economy in China will ultimately set the stage for future reforms. History shows us that when ordinary people obtain wealth on a massive scale and when others are left out of that system it will invariably create a conflict of interest and hence people will demand accountability and representation.
ReplyDeleteI thought the reading's mention of the new urban poor and unemployed in China was particularly interesting. That kind of unemployment, if left unaddressed, seems ripe for protests. Also, China still has issues like internet censorship, lack of political voice, and lousy environmental and working condition. As more people look out at the surrounding world, I think the Chinese people will start feeling more relative deprivation, and we may get a "Chinese spring" to match the Arab one (but hopefully with better results).
DeleteMarcus, I agree in this way, Marx believed that the natural evolution of democratic-capitolism leads to communism. I believe the inverse of that is possible, in that failed communistic-dictatorships lead to an attempt in republics and democratic-capitalism. The states of the old USSR are examples of that change. I also believe that would be the natural "next step" for China and Cuba. Communism is a failure and totalitarian dictators are all eventually overthrown. China will slowly morph into a more democratic state over time...How much time will it take? No one knows.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country?
ReplyDeleteI think in some ways it is safe to say China is a communist country and in other ways it clearly is not. I can still remember seeing the Tiananmen Square protest on the news in the late 1980's and I know that numerous people were killed during those protests. There was also a large protest movement last year in Hong Kong that went nowhere.The regime was and is not going to allow any opposition to their rule. We also continue to see a ruling elite in China like a traditional communist country.
The Chinese economy is booming. The favored nation status it has with the US has been a benefit to both countries. I am in no way an expert on all things Chinese but when the British pulled out of Hong Kong it didn't appear that the Chinese government changed much. I think they liked all the revenue that was generated there. Next time you go to Wal-Mart ot Target look at the labels of the items you're buying. Nine times out of ten they're made in China. I think the Chinese got a taste of all that money and decided that maybe Capitolism isn't all that bad.
Matt I agree, Chinese citizens are ready for a change in leadership and their economic conditions. They want to get away from the traditional ways to be apart of a new society and focus on how they can be a part of a capitalistic society.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a 'communist' country?
ReplyDeleteNo, many of China's communist practices have been abandoned or reformed, leaving people to succeed or fail on their own merits but also leaving them to pay for benefits such as their own health care and retirement. Policies of the Chinese Communist Party were reformed, such as collectivized agriculture, which was abolished in the late 1970s in favor of what Deng called a 'household responsibility system'. Agricultural production is up because farmers are motivated to earn money through their own efforts.
Guaranteed employment and benefits also disappeared in the late 1970s. This makes life difficult for many millions who have trouble finding work or providing for their own health care or other social benefits. Although China still claims to believe in communist theories, there is a widening gap between the rich and the poor, just like here in good old America.
Good points, it seems to me China is losing its Communist Identity piece by piece. I think the success of the Chinese economy over the last two decades have opened the door to more personal freedom and rights by the Chinese government.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a 'communist' country?
ReplyDeleteChina is not a pure communist society. I think today China is more capitalistic and has lost the communist identity. I could make the argument that China is more socialist but it definitely has aspects of both Capitalism and Socialism. The third point I would make is it has a very strong one party ruling system which makes it less Capitalistic and more Socialist. However, over the last thirty years, China's economy has been developing very quickly, much like you would expect a free trade capitalistic nation to develop.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country?
ReplyDeleteChina continues to stray away from the past Marxist ideas and try to reach for more capitalist ideas. The political economy continues to call themselves communists but because Chinese citizens are becoming more used to more modern ways of society where they desire better jobs and better pay, they are ready for economic growth and changes in political leadership
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country?
ReplyDeleteAlthough the government still exhibits all the hallmarks of a communist state in the areas of personal liberties, freedom of the press, and state controlled industry, it would be fair to state that the economic reforms that began in the 1970's have created a market economy that parallels that of capitalism.
Beginning in 1982, when the government reigns on agricultural collectives were loosened, the economy began to open up to capitalistic ideas. Farmers were able to realize profits from their efforts, and like a forest fire, the idea of working for ones on betterment over the benefit of the state began to spread.
With thousands of people unemployed from the government controlled industries, many were left to survive on their own devices. This led to the creation of private businesses, which would of been self defeating for the government to stop. With the economy languishing, and the government controlled industrial complex inefficient at best, the realization of Marx's predictions of a peasant revolt could come to fruition. It was soon shown that these newly created businesses were able to out perform the state run entities even though they did not have the built in advantages of protected resources and markets. They did have a motivated work force, and the advantages of being able to run their businesses with the goal of profits instead of serving the needs of the state.
That being said, the country still is under the control of one party, but many see that change is inevitable as the economic policies are liberalized but yet political policies remain unchanged.
In short,calling China a communist country would be a misnomer. China is Communist in name and party only, but as they move towards a global economy, the country will loose the last vestiges of the days of Mao, and move towards a less restrictive system.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteThe present day “communist” China is totally different from what it was 30 to 50 years ago. Communism is defined as a “socioeconomic system structured upon the common ownership of the means of production” and characterized by the absence of social classes, money, and the state—a form of government where the very way of life of an individual living is based on everything common to all people within the state. In essence, everything is owned by the state and there is no such thing as private property or private ownership.
Present day China is not like that. Today the Chinese government allows aspects of capitalism like private land, and citizens are able to earn varying wages. Thus it can be seen that China is not truly communist any more as key aspects that where in Karl Marx's communist manifesto are not used.
Question 1: How did Mao change Leninism/Marxism for China?
ReplyDeleteMao was obviously inspired by Marx and Lenin. However, he was dealing with a very different nation than the industrial, European countries that Marx wrote about. Even Lenin with Russia had a little more to work with than China's largely agrarian economy. According to Marx, a nation needed to pass from Feudalism through Capitalism and then into Communism. Also, while Marx upheld the industrial worker and disparaged the peasant, Mao included peasants as active in the proletariat. Mao was also highly nationalist and even cooled towards the USSR, a turn away from the USSR and Lenin's (initial) ideal of a worldwide communist revolution. Mao's impatience cost his country dearly. Because there was no industrial base to confiscate from the bourgeois, he decided to create them within a centrally planned economy. The infamous Great Leap Forward was, of course, the unfortunate result.
I like how you worded the issues regarding Mao's changes to Leninism/Marxism. It would be interesting to see what would have occurred had Mao been more patient and able to allow China to develop in a more Marxist format rather than rushing into the glorious error that was the Great Leap Forward. Additionally I wonder how communism would be able to function in an agrarian society, perhaps the revolution that is always spoken of to overthrow the bourgeois would instead be replaced by an overthrow of the political powers that be followed by a transition into a more commune like existence.
DeleteChina has the ability to run under a democracy but there needs to be a collective resistance from the people and a demand for change. However this may not be easy when the government is too big to combat. China is becoming a huge power in the world economy, and soon China may be more powerful than the U.S. This is significant because soon much of what happens in the Chinese economy will directly affect the rest of the world. It is hard to take away power from people who abuse it. China's political system isn't organized like a democracy and when giving citizens all of the power and an equal vote, there may be too much difference internally, thus causing the democracy to fail.
ReplyDeleteThe Communist Party in China is the largest political party organization in the world. Are the millions of party members willing to step down from their position of authority to risk a new democracy to develope ? I believe the answer is a resounding NO! However, as capitalism has crept in slowly from the death of Mao and the aquisition of Hong Kong, it is likely that China's form of communism could become a hybrid of democracy, just as the economy changed over the last few decades. We have been taught that a democracy can not exist with out capitalism....would it also be true that China's capitalism can not survive with out democracy?
DeleteWhen it comes to the topic of the democratization of China I believe that there are several key road blocks standing in the way of its development. China, though having adopted numerous Western economic and political methods still stands firm against too much change that would make them like their rivals in the West. Democracy stands as the greatest example of western thought and as such would be a hard pill for the Chinese to swallow. Additionally, due to the massive disparity in wealth and education that is present in China, it would be extremely difficult for them to form a truly representative democracy without having to figure out a way to educate the large numbers of rural Chinese citizens and also get them out to the polls in order to vote. Given the current economic climate, in tandem with these other variables it simply does not seem practical for the Chinese to make large scales changes. Perhaps moving forward if they are to reach a point where their systems prove no longer effective and they were able to come to terms with the western ways, then perhaps true democracy could find a home in China.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your theory the strongest impediment to the full democratization of China would be overcoming the cultural differences of eastern and western ideas, however, we diverge on a few other issues.
DeleteMarx's whole conflict theory in society was predicated on a stratified class system. According to him, the impetus for change is the lower classes rising up to protect their interests, and pushing for change. Marx suggested that communism was an end result of a failed capitalistic system, but after 70+ years of "communist" rule and the economy propelling the country to superpower status, it is not a far leap to suggest that those lower economic classes begin to demand reforms to get their 'piece of the pie".
The second point I would make, is that China has one of the finest education systems in the world, and a culture that honors intelligence rather then works to keep the populace (in the words of Dean Wormer) "fat, drunk, and stupid". that being said, even in the remote regions, there are educational opportunities, and that shouldn't be an impediment to change. I would point to the Tiananmen Square demonstrations in 1989, that were led by students, trying to reform the government. These students created quite a conundrum for the government as they had to decide how to quash the decent without having it grow into something bigger. Like with the American Civil Rights movement of the 1950's and 60's, one small spark could set off a revolution. As with the Civil Rights movement, the students provided the spark, and that could happen again as the discord in China grows.
In short, the democratization may be a slow and arduous process, but it could happen. I do feel however, that overcoming the cultural barriers will be the biggest obstacle.
Is China a communistic state? I have been challenged by the ambiguity of poly-sci questions, and the multiple levels of application through out this semester. This is a perfect example of that multiplicity....In respects to government control and restrictions of personal freedoms, one could easily reason that China is a communist state. However, when viewed through the lens of economics and foreign policy, China is a unique hybrid. A quasi-capitalistic economy is open for trade, not with "closed" economic policies as would be expected of a communist country. The hosting of the Olympics was unexpected for communism. They even closed all the polution producing factories in Beiging to clear the air for foreign visitors to create a more favorable environment and first impression for Olympic guests. This would not usually be the concern of a communistic government, but a desire for capitalism and growth of international trade created a change in attitude for a foreign perspective to be a positive one. I believe there is no such thing as pure mainstream communism, and China has more than deviated from that ideological path. Could they continue to adopt more democratic policies? Only time will tell.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, there are many parallels between communism and Chinese politics, and like you said there are also a few differences. I certainly don't think that China is a full blown communist state. If this were the case, we would probably know a lot less about China, and interact with them far less than we currently do, in terms of business. It is hard to say though, Chinese citizens might have something completely different to say about the role communism may or may not play in China. As Americans, all we can really do is speculate.
DeleteMany countries have made the transition from authoritarian rule to varying degrees of democracy, and I think it can be seen in China's future. One party regimes are subject to ageing and organizational decay. In the china the ruling party represses political movements, controls the internet and opposes opposing democratic activity. I think that the conditions in China are changing to create a platform for democratization.There are alot of socieconomic changes occurring with rising literacy, income and urbanization rates. China has a huge population with growing economic success. If economic success continues and the inequality gap decreases I think that the large underrepresented population can push for democratization.
ReplyDeleteI liked your introductory sentence, and completely agree. China's citizens are now able to earn varying wages, separating the social classes. In a communist regime obviously wages are controlled by the state. I think the economic success might even be a factor of the shift toward capitalism in China
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteIn some ways China can still be considered a communist state as far as some of the government rules and policies they still must follow and in some ways not. For example how a female individual in most cases will not be allowed to receive loans or land because she is a woman. Now that issue has improved but I think its because of society and not the government's influence by a rule. But in ways of people making a majority of their life changing decisions, it's alright to say they are losing their communist ways. You are now free to choose how and where you can make a living. In more ways than one they are losing their communism to socialism.
I agree that China has evovled into socialism, as well as captialism. The text explains that China's societal changes has opened the country up to diversity. "People are freer to choose jobs, travel about the country and internationally, practice their religious beliefs, and join non-political associations" (p.638). Thoes freedoms were unheard of back in the Maoist "communism" era.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, no.. China is not a communist country. China has consistently been one of the strongest proponents of capitalism. Corporations in China are entities of the state, and the profits from the corporations become the profits for the state. This transformation has made competition between state-owned and non-state owned business a fierce one. Another reason why I think China is not practicing communism because they no longer dicate what the economy should produce and how it should produce it; and almost all prices are set according to supply and demand measures, rather by administrative decree (p.635).
The only reason why China is still considered as a communist country, is because the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is the ruling politicial party.